Throughline

Drones are swarming battlefields in Ukraine, Iran, and beyond. Drone warfare is cheap, efficient, autonomous — and changing warfare forever. Today on the show, the past, present and future of battle by remote control. This episode originally published in 2021 and has been updated. GUEST: James Rodgers, war historian and author of several books about drones, including Drones: What Everyone Needs to Know To access bonus episodes and listen to Throughline sponsor-free, subscribe to Throughline+ via Apple Podcasts or at plus.npr.org/throughline. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for sponsorship and to manage your podcast sponsorship preferences. NPR Privacy Policy

A glimpse into life during the Great Depression from the people that lived it. To access bonus episodes and listen to Throughline sponsor-free, subscribe to Throughline+ via Apple Podcasts or at plus.npr.org/throughline. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for sponsorship and to manage your podcast sponsorship preferences. NPR Privacy Policy

All wars are fought twice: first on the battlefield, the second time in memory," writes Pulitzer Prize-winning author Viet Thanh Nguyen. This week on Throughline, we revisit our 2022 conversation with Nguyen about how the way we remember and selectively forget the ravages of war has the power to reshape our future. To access bonus episodes and listen to Throughline sponsor-free, subscribe to Throughline+ via Apple Podcasts or at plus.npr.org/throughline. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for sponsorship and to manage your podcast sponsorship preferences. NPR Privacy Policy

Rapid industrialization reshaped American life in the mid-19th century. But as corporations grew larger and more powerful, working conditions for many everyday Americans worsened while wages stalled. Enter Eugene Debs, the labor organizer and founder of the American Socialist Party, who rallied workers nationwide to fight for their rights. To access bonus episodes and listen to Throughline sponsor-free, subscribe to Throughline+ via Apple Podcasts or at plus.npr.org/throughline. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for sponsorship and to manage your podcast sponsorship preferences. NPR Privacy Policy

People used to say "believe your eyes." But these days that's not so easy to do. What we scroll through every day blurs the line between entertainment and fact. And nowhere is that phenomenon more evident than in reality television. Today on the show, we tackle the genre that takes our most potent feelings – love, hope, anxiety, loneliness – and turns them into profit. This episode originally ran in 2022. Guests: Goloka Bolte, reality TV casting director Dr. Jana Scrivani, licensed clinical psychologist Racquel Gates, associate professor of film and media studies at Columbia University Dr. J'tia Hart, nuclear engineer on Survivor (Season 28) Jeff Jenkins, founder of Jeff Jenkins Productions (JJP) To access bonus episodes and listen to Throughline sponsor-free, subscribe to Throughline+ via Apple Podcasts or at plus.npr.org/throughline. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for sponsorship and to manage your podcast sponsorship preferences. NPR Privacy Policy

Jack Johnson was the first world Black heavyweight champion, but winning the title was only part of the battle. Every time Johnson stepped into a boxing ring, he struck a blow to white supremacy. In this week’s episode, the story of Jack Johnson and the legacy of Black athletes pushing for social change in America. To access bonus episodes and listen to Throughline sponsor-free, subscribe to Throughline+ via Apple Podcasts or at plus.npr.org/throughline. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for sponsorship and to manage your podcast sponsorship preferences. NPR Privacy Policy

Starbase. Prospera. California Forever. Mars. From private cities to interstellar colonies, tech billionaires like Elon Musk and Peter Thiel have backed experiments designed to operate beyond the borders — and laws — most of us live by. So we wondered: has this happened before? In this episode, we visit an Arctic archipelago, homesteads floating in the ocean, and a startup city in Honduras to explore where places built with the ultra-rich in mind leave all the rest of us. Guests: Atossa Araxia Abrahamian, author of The Cosmopolites and The Hidden Globe: How Wealth Hacks the World Wayne Gramlich, retired computer engineer Dan Girma, producer on NPR's Embedded podcast Jacob Silverman, author of Gilded Rage: Elon Musk and the Radicalization of Silicon Valley To access bonus episodes and listen to Throughline sponsor-free, subscribe to Throughline+ via Apple Podcasts or at plus.npr.org/throughline. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for sponsorship and to manage your podcast sponsorship preferences. NPR Privacy Policy

As the United States expanded into a global superpower, it simultaneously strengthened its national borders and began to limit who could come in and out of the country. In this week’s episode, the story of how one of the very first walls meant to divide people was built on the US Southern border. To access bonus episodes and listen to Throughline sponsor-free, subscribe to Throughline+ via Apple Podcasts or at plus.npr.org/throughline. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for sponsorship and to manage your podcast sponsorship preferences. NPR Privacy Policy

When we call something "clickbait," we don't mean it as a compliment. But let's be real: we also click. It's hard to resist a spicy story, and 19th-century newspaper tycoon William Randolph Hearst knew it. At a time when most papers merely reported events, his papers created them, sending reporters out to perform daring rescues, solve sensational murders, and even meddle in geopolitics. Today on the show: the man who brought spectacle and scandal to the news — and changed journalism forever. Guests: Karen Roggenkamp, professor of English at East Texas A&M University and author of Narrating the News and Sympathy, Madness, and Crime W. Joseph Campbell, emeritus professor of communication at American University and author of The Year That Defined American Journalism: 1897 and the Clash of Paradigms and Lost in a Gallup: Polling Failure in U.S. Presidential Elections To access bonus episodes and listen to Throughline sponsor-free, subscribe to Throughline+ via Apple Podcasts or at plus.npr.org/throughline. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for sponsorship and to manage your podcast sponsorship preferences. NPR Privacy Policy

In the late 1890s, the United States fought wars and backed independence movements around the world. By the time the fighting was over, the US emerged as a new global power —and with it, a new identity. This week: how the U.S. became an empire, and why it started calling itself America. To access bonus episodes and listen to Throughline sponsor-free, subscribe to Throughline+ via Apple Podcasts or at plus.npr.org/throughline. To manage podcast ad preferences, review the links below: See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for sponsorship and to manage your podcast sponsorship preferences. NPR Privacy Policy

Like it or not, artificial intelligence is deeply rooted in our lives. Its invisible architecture stretches everywhere from dating apps to medical care. In this new world, what remains uniquely human? On today's episode, we explore the tension between our love of AI and our fear of it — and try to decode the humans behind the machines. This episode originally published in March of 2023. Guests: George Zarkadakis, author of In Our Own Image: Will Artificial Intelligence Save or Destroy Us? Francis Collins, physician-geneticist who led the Human Genome Project Stephanie Dick, assistant professor in the School of Communication at Simon Fraser University Meredith Broussard, data journalism professor at New York University, and author of More Than a Glitch: Confronting Race, Gender and Ability Bias in Tech To access bonus episodes and listen to Throughline sponsor-free, subscribe to Throughline+ via Apple Podcasts or at plus.npr.org/throughline. To manage podcast ad preferences, review the links below: See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for sponsorship and to manage your podcast sponsorship preferences. NPR Privacy Policy

The 14th Amendment guaranteed equal citizenship after the Civil War, but who exactly counted as a citizen? Today on the show, the story of Wong Kim Ark, a man born in San Francisco to Chinese parents, whose Supreme Court case defined birthright citizenship more than a century ago. To access bonus episodes and listen to Throughline sponsor-free, subscribe to Throughline+ via Apple Podcasts or at plus.npr.org/throughline. To manage podcast ad preferences, review the links below: See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for sponsorship and to manage your podcast sponsorship preferences. NPR Privacy Policy

Gangsters, banksters, and politicians. Today on the show, how the hunt for Al Capone helped turn the IRS into one of the U.S. government's most powerful tools — and most effective weapons. This episode originally published in May of 2025. Guests: Joe Thorndike, historian for Tax Analysts and author of Their Fair Share: Taxing the Rich in the Age of FDR. Paul Camacho, retired special agent for the IRS Criminal Investigation Division and member of the board of directors at the Mob Museum in Las Vegas. Jason Scott Smith, historian at The University of New Mexico and author of two books about FDR and the New Deal. Lawrence Reed, president emeritus of The Foundation for Economic Education. To access bonus episodes and listen to Throughline sponsor-free, subscribe to Throughline+ via Apple Podcasts or at plus.npr.org/throughline. To manage podcast ad preferences, review the links below: See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for sponsorship and to manage your podcast sponsorship preferences. NPR Privacy Policy

What do bananas have to do with American history? On this week’s episode, how the sweet fruit became an American staple because of one entrepreneur who took business off US shores, expanding the country’s economic reach and influence. To access bonus episodes and listen to Throughline sponsor-free, subscribe to Throughline+ via Apple Podcasts or at plus.npr.org/throughline. To manage podcast ad preferences, review the links below: See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for sponsorship and to manage your podcast sponsorship preferences. Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoices NPR Privacy Policy

Elon Musk. Donald Trump. Bill Gates. Sam Altman. Larry Ellison. Alex Karp. Jared Kushner. Mr. Beast. Jeffrey Epstein… Those are just a few of the people who have been friendly with, and often done business with, Saudi Arabia over the last decade. Today on the show: how one of the world’s most authoritarian regimes became one of Silicon Valley’s biggest investors – and what that’s meant for the rest of us. To access bonus episodes and listen to Throughline sponsor-free, subscribe to Throughline+ via Apple Podcasts or at plus.npr.org/throughline. To manage podcast ad preferences, review the links below: See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for sponsorship and to manage your podcast sponsorship preferences. Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoices NPR Privacy Policy

In the face of United States westward expansion in the 19th century, Native people fought to preserve their land and way of life. Today on the show: the story of how one Ojibwe leader tried to keep his people and land together by building a nation within a nation. To access bonus episodes and listen to Throughline sponsor-free, subscribe to Throughline+ via Apple Podcasts or at plus.npr.org/throughline. To manage podcast ad preferences, review the links below: See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for sponsorship and to manage your podcast sponsorship preferences. Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoices NPR Privacy Policy

Cuba is on the brink of collapse – a scenario that 13 U.S. presidents have tried to engineer with no success. Today on the show, the making of the Cuban crisis and what might come next. Guests: Eloy Viera, lawyer and journalist for El Toque Lillian Guerra, Cuban-American history professor at the University of Florida Maria De Los Angeles Torres, professor of Latin American and Latino Studies at the University of Illinois in Chicago To access bonus episodes and listen to Throughline sponsor-free, subscribe to Throughline+ via Apple Podcasts or at plus.npr.org/throughline. To manage podcast ad preferences, review the links below: See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for sponsorship and to manage your podcast sponsorship preferences. Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoices NPR Privacy Policy

After the Civil War, while America was rebuilding itself, some Southerners made a different kind of move — they packed up and left. Today on the show: the Confederados, the American settlers who fled to Brazil chasing wealth, land, and a chance to keep slavery alive. To access bonus episodes and listen to Throughline sponsor-free, subscribe to Throughline+ via Apple Podcasts or at plus.npr.org/throughline. To manage podcast ad preferences, review the links below: See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for sponsorship and to manage your podcast sponsorship preferences. Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoices NPR Privacy Policy

Military confrontations, early-morning attacks, and digital warfare: the story of Iran and the U.S. from the 1979 Iranian revolution to the fraught moment we're in today. This episode originally ran in 2019 as Rules of Engagement. You can find more of Throughline's coverage into the origins of the conflict in the Middle East here. Guests: Karim Sadjadpour, senior fellow at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace Michael Eisenstadt, director of the Washington Institute's military and security studies program Kim Zetter, writer for WIRED magazine and author of Countdown to Zero Day: Stuxnet and the Launch of the World's First Digital Weapon To access bonus episodes and listen to Throughline sponsor-free, subscribe to Throughline+ via Apple Podcasts or at plus.npr.org/throughline. To manage podcast ad preferences, review the links below: See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for sponsorship and to manage your podcast sponsorship preferences. Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoices NPR Privacy Policy

The story of Frederick Douglass’s fight for universal suffrage from the Civil War to the rise of Jim Crow. To access bonus episodes and listen to Throughline sponsor-free, subscribe to Throughline+ via Apple Podcasts or at plus.npr.org/throughline. To manage podcast ad preferences, review the links below: See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for sponsorship and to manage your podcast sponsorship preferences. Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoices NPR Privacy Policy